Curse

RedStar · Oct 23, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I actually like this system...at least you can somewhat teach more people what to do.
Sure you can find a lot of new people playing CB, and a lot of them can follow directions (telling them to not go fight 5 red dots, drawing on the compass to tell them where to go and where not to go...). If you don't want to spend those 30 secs before a match to quickly tell them what to do, where to go, what not to do, then don't be that surprised if they too dumb things.

And I hate those people that resign as soon as we are more than 2 points behind...I prefer having someone totally new, than some kind of elitist whiner that doesn't want to play because "Just resign people, we lost. COME ON YOU'RE MAKING ME LOSE MY TIME".

On the builds, I like the ranger's. The ritualist one annoys me, so maybe I'll try it later.

Quote:

Lolz, how? Every class has access to self-heal skill and mes just can't do enough damage. It's generally useless this year.

If I had a mesmer I would be playing with it. The can do enough damage since the other can't almost do anything.

Shinichi Megure · Oct 23, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Ow whats up with CB this year super boring builds + new teams every match ugh"
Realy spamming 234.. on warrior or incendary arrows on ranger makes me jump:S nothing compared to the inbalanced but funny builds from last year. And the teamplay goes downhill with new teammates every match

.. looking foward for good matches in Sb and DA

Thevil King · Oct 23, 2010, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

I actually like this system...at least you can somewhat teach more people what to do.
Sure you can find a lot of new people playing CB, and a lot of them can follow directions (telling them to not go fight 5 red dots, drawing on the compass to tell them where to go and where not to go...). If you don't want to spend those 30 secs before a match to quickly tell them what to do, where to go, what not to do, then don't be that surprised if they too dumb things.

And I hate those people that resign as soon as we are more than 2 points behind...I prefer having someone totally new, than some kind of elitist whiner that doesn't want to play because "Just resign people, we lost. COME ON YOU'RE MAKING ME LOSE MY TIME".

yea, imagine you have to do that for 200 games a day, and having people like that every single game. the reason you like this new format is exactly the reason it is not good.

NerfHerder · Oct 23, 2010, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

yea, imagine you have to do that for 200 games a day, and having people like that every single game. the reason you like this new format is exactly the reason it is not good.

Saying that you dont want more people to learn PvP(which is what you imply) is the same reason PvP is in this state to begin with. Elitism. What do you people want? A GvG rank requirement for CB?

And I like the builds. At least they didnt copy the PvP meta like they did last year. I bet whats really making people upset is that, for once, they have to step outside of thier comfort zone. No Frenzy!?!?! /ragequit

Thevil King · Oct 23, 2010, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Saying that you dont want more people to learn PvP(which is what you imply) is the same reason PvP is in this state to begin with. Elitism. What do you people want? A GvG rank requirement for CB?

And I like the builds. At least they didnt copy the PvP meta like they did last year. I bet whats really making people upset is that, for once, they have to step outside of thier comfort zone. No Frenzy!?!?! /ragequit

are you kidding me? how exactly did i imply that in my post? show me. i was only saying that after about, say 200 games a day, it gets tiring explaining the exact same tactics every single game. was i wrong in saying that? and how did gvg ranking get into this? maybe its a good idea to bring in relevant stuff instead of putting words in my mouth?

somehow, whoever did not agree with the new cb change must be labeled a elitest arrogant pvper. "you people" lol, this pvp vs pve debate is srsly a joke. as i said before, its just make dangerous generalizations for certain ppl to antagonize another grp, pathetic. it is not doing anything to contribute to this discussion.

NerfHerder · Oct 23, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedStar

I actually like this system...at least you can somewhat teach more people what to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevil King

yea, imagine you have to do that for 200 games a day, and having people like that every single game. the reason you like this new format is exactly the reason it is not good.

My apologies if I misunderstood or misspoke. It has nothing to do with PvE vs PvP. It has everything to do with skilled and not so skilled players.

My main point about CB is that it might be a good thing that a group of skilled players(synced or random) dont stay in that same group. If all the skilled players are in the same group for 20-40 consecutive wins, then where are the ones who are still learning? Well, they are stuck with other not so skilled players and possibly the one skilled player saying "come on resign, its over!"

From a learning perspective, the old system promoted good players to get better and poor/inexperienced players hardly got a chance to learn from the good ones. The new system mixes it up so everyone can get a better chance to learn new and better tactics. Thereby reducing the overall numbers of poor players and rage quiters, in the long run.

And no you dont have to always talk to the bad players. Just lead by example and they can learn by playing with you. One simple ping or line here and there goes a long way.

plenethor · Oct 23, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Liking the CBs so far, it's nice not having to keep restarting until you get a decent team since the other teams in the exact same state as you. Also liking the fact I don't feel I have to keep playing when I've maxed my Balth faction or want to take a break. It definitely suits a less stressful playstyle.

Rit bar is a very nice all rounder as well and every profession seems to be on a fairly even footing. Only downside is the people who want to resign the moment they don't start 5 points up. Sometimes you see people on both sides assume they cant win and try to resign.

Ewon · Oct 23, 2010, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Ok at first I thought CB was going to actually be pretty good. I liked the fact that there wasn't going to be any syncers, but wow this is terrible. In the beginning I was winning every match, and seemed to have some pretty good teams. Today all Im getting are poeple who either want to all rush mid and sit there, 1/2v 4/5ing, leechers/afkers, and generally bad players who are calling terrible tactics.

I kind of miss the build of a team after you win the first few matches, though I don't at all miss the syncers.

Thevil King · Oct 23, 2010, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

My main point about CB is that it might be a good thing that a group of skilled players(synced or random) dont stay in that same group. If all the skilled players are in the same group for 20-40 consecutive wins, then where are the ones who are still learning? Well, they are stuck with other not so skilled players and possibly the one skilled player saying "come on resign, its over!"

From a learning perspective, the old system promoted good players to get better and poor/inexperienced players hardly got a chance to learn from the good ones. The new system mixes it up so everyone can get a better chance to learn new and better tactics. Thereby reducing the overall numbers of poor players and rage quiters, in the long run.

And no you dont have to always talk to the bad players. Just lead by example and they can learn by playing with you. One simple ping or line here and there goes a long way.

tbh, i am not so optimistic about that. having played a couple hundred games in this new format, i have observed this:

1.for some reason the majority of the people have the pre-established impression that the only way to win is through fighting. consequently they completely ignore any strategic aspect such as capping, time killing, coordination, etc.

2.this new format allows too little time for good players to teach any of the aforementioned strategic aspects to the inexpd. there is only one game, and about 30secs of waiting time. once the game is done, most likely you will not see them again. in other words, there is only 30 secs to actually explain things thru text.

3.these 30seconds rarely have any effect on the changing the idea of killing only. most of the time when i try to explain things such as split+cap, time kill, or how to start the game, i get called the noob instead. very few ppl take these concepts srsly, even when presented to them explicitly by an expd player. and it is certain a short time frame of 1game will not change their views. the most common responses are the likes of "mob center and hold it", "stay here and dont fight", "dont cap just stay at center".

4.what about leading through example? well, by the time the game starts, the advices for capping instead of mobbing are usually dismissed, and people run towards the main shrine anyways. during the game i can call targets or draw on map and stuff, but not alot of people pay attention to that. the problem is, it is very difficult to establish any kind of rapport between the players to actually get them to listen to your advice. and one games time is definately not enough for that.

5.2 of the maps certainly do not favor substantial strategic play in themselves; the norn map and the lava map. as a result, they only add to the majority's idea of cb being a big spamfest brawl. there can be some strategy involved, and they are more subtle, but these maps largely reward the team who does the spams the most dmg in a mob. it presents to the players as if it is just another ra arena, which cb is clearly not.

then drawing from these observations, here are my concerns:

6.this new format certainly favors the majority of inexperienced players, but at a heavy price. the short duration of a team will mean that the experienced will likely be unable to communicate any sort of useful ideas to the inexperienced. but since this is the case, the expd players, wanting to win, will still need to do their best to carry their teams to victory. in that sense, it is primarily luck that determines the games. either ur good player sucessfully carries the team, or the inexperienced team makes too many mistakes and loses. in either case it causes tremendous frustration for the expd players, because it forces upon them burdens that they are not entitled to. and to amplify that, this is exactly what happens every game.

7.as a result, the good players will gradually be driven away by the unwelcoming format. by then, good players who are willing to give any sort of advice will be more than a rarity. their experience will mostly be overwhelmed by a sea of ignorance and hostility. the game play, by then, will mostly be degenerated into brawl fests and cb will be played as another ra arena.

as someone who loves playing cb, this is clearly not what is desired. but that is where this new format is heading towards.

Ewon · Oct 23, 2010, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I have been seeing the same thing and agree with this. I was thinking that if it was just random the first time in, done well, it might help to build a team, but do you think this would work. I'm not sure these players are going to start listening even after 2-3-4 matches played together, they are just going to continue thinking their mob middle is pro. There are an insane number of these players in there that I don't know if this would even help right now. Chances are, the good players will just leave until they get a team they feel they can win with, which still just leaves the bad players behind. tbh, I think I'm in favour of this right now, as these players have no hope. If you can't listen to logic then why should we try to teach you?

EDIT: Yup, screw CB this is terrible. Good attempt on trying to fix things, but the player base is just to bad at pvp logic

Willows Guardian · Oct 23, 2010, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I'm totally bummed about the new Costume Brawl! This has been my favorite holiday event for so long, and when I remembered that it was coming soon, I had an awesome reaction (totally youtube-worthy) of excitement. I could barely wait to play.

Then I go in for a match, and the bars don't really bother me. But I got so sad when I realized that our teams were randomized. Last year, I had so much fun meeting new people and developing a camaraderie with them, making friends that way. I don't really have a problem with syncing for holiday events. I mean, I wouldn't mind syncing with my boyfriend for CB, since we both enjoy it very much, and it's another way for us to have some festive Halloween + GW fun.

Now when I play I only look at my teammates classes, and I don't even pay attention to who I'm playing with at all. There's no point in starting to build a relationship with anyone if they're just going to be gone again in 8 minutes... Which makes me sad. I love the GW community so much more than the WoW one, because of the ease with which I can communicate and get along with people. But now this feels exactly like when I played WoW. Just keeping your head straight and not making eye contact. GW really is becoming Single Player only. Heroes and Henchies are nice in PvE too, but they definitely reduced the amount of times real people would actually team up in a town and look for completing a mission.

Here's to GW2 and encouraged working togetherness!

Jessyi · Oct 23, 2010, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

My main point about CB is that it might be a good thing that a group of skilled players(synced or random) dont stay in that same group. If all the skilled players are in the same group for 20-40 consecutive wins, then where are the ones who are still learning? Well, they are stuck with other not so skilled players and possibly the one skilled player saying "come on resign, its over!"

So in your opinion, player ability is a resource to be distributed for the greater good (not counting those who are actually talented, who are of course anchored to a bunch of failures). Socialism sucks in real life, and it sucks in Guild Wars.

Here's a thought. In past years, a few good guides were written for the costume brawl. Anyone interested in learning might read those if they really were interested in learning the finer points. I say "finer points" because there are a few coarse points that people still don't know. Things like DON'T fight 2 vs 5.

When it comes to costume brawl, there's no secret to winning. The absolute number 1 strategy that will not fail EVER (as long as people actually do it) is to call targets and have everyone pile on it until it dies, rinse, repeat. You do not even need battle cry in order to do this. However, virtually every game I call my target and I'll have maybe 2 other players attacking it, and the other 2 will be doing some other RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing thing (who the hell knows). Not only that, but they won't even bother to call their target so I can switch onto it. The result is that our team gets spiked down while their team hovers with a few low players who stay alive.

The second best strategy (taking stupid players into account) is to get the battle cry shrine, then fight for the center. This is the strategy I always attempt since if your team IS good enough, you don't need the insurance of the battle cry shrine (but it's nice to have just in case). This is some basic math. Other things equal, the team with the BC shrine will win in an evenly matched battle. Once you have the center - don't camp it. Hunt the enemy, and for Christ's sake, don't let them recapture the BC shrine and team wipe you. A big hint about why you should avoid this is that it's EXACTLY what you just did to them. If they learn from it and you don't: oops ur bad.

The worst and (bafflingly) most common strategy is to go directly to the center and camp it. I don't know why people do this. So much can go wrong. For one: morale is shit and it doesn't win games unless you've got almost all the shrines (and if you do, it means you're successfully killing them anyways). Two, any halfway decent team can split off one character to the battle cry and then wipe you. Unless you are proactive and adapt to what your enemy is doing, you're going to die. That's not just Costume Brawl, that's not even just PvP. That's life itself. How is it that people don't know this? There is only one reason to attempt this strategy: you believe your team is competent and capable of following calls (laughably naive). There is only one reason this strategy works: the other team is even worse than you are.

Am I really being asked to teach these people how to play? That's like having a kung fu master teach your kid to walk. I am way over-qualified, and I loathe getting stuck with these morons. This is so basic that if you don't already know it, all I can conclude is that you're not interested in winning (or you're a massive strawberry scrubcake).

But even if none of that matters to you at all, I still have ONE suggestion that I think we could all live with. Split Costume Brawl into two staging areas: one for random trash, and one for a team arena format. There, everybody wins instead of everybody losing.

Kawil · Oct 23, 2010, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

But even if none of that matters to you at all, I still have ONE suggestion that I think we could all live with. Split Costume Brawl into two staging areas: one for random trash, and one for a team arena format. There, everybody wins instead of everybody losing.

I was thinking about this myself but then wouldn't it just turn into Codex (team concept)? Or Gamer title discrimination? Wouldn't the same arguments come up that we have now?

Personally, I don't care either way as it's just a fun format that I rather enjoy. However, I'm all for getting rid of syncing but I think it (the randomness of teams) should be done before the first match and not after every win.

Jessyi · Oct 23, 2010, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawil

I was thinking about this myself but then wouldn't it just turn into Codex (team concept)? Or Gamer title discrimination? Wouldn't the same arguments come up that we have now?

Well...no, because then you'd just go to the random version of costume brawl. Like how you could get gladiator points from TA or RA. There's no rank discrimination in RA. At any rate, all I'm asking is for them to introduce a version along side the one that already exists, with the only difference being that you can pick teams.

Quote:

Personally, I don't care either way as it's just a fun format that I rather enjoy. However, I'm all for getting rid of syncing but I think it (the randomness of teams) should be done before the first match and not after every win.

ANet can't do anything about syncing without doing this stupid random team shite. If they could, they would have. I'm aware that syncing spoils the spirit of the random team format, and if they could get rid of it in a way that didn't suck I'd be all for it. Since that dog won't hunt, all I want is an option for those of us looking for a challenge AND a good time. Is that such a terrible thing to want?

revelation · Oct 23, 2010, 06:26 PM // 18:26

It's a fun change, good teams can't farm noobs, and gives everyone a chance to win. Also more costumes = win.

slowerpoke · Oct 23, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

cb > codex arena

ilr · Oct 23, 2010, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Impression I get from this thread is that the 1337 Steamroll-nubs-or-GTFO players are QQ'ing.
Isn't that a good thing?....

...what I came here for isn't being talked about....
IE: which primary needs the most countering and how to go about countering it...

Shayne Hawke · Oct 23, 2010, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilr

...what I came here for isn't being talked about....
IE: which primary needs the most countering and how to go about countering it...

Needs countering: Ranger, Ritualist, Assassin, and Warrior

Counter with: More of the same, + Elementalist for Warrior

drkn · Oct 23, 2010, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Easy fix for current randomness:
Make random reshuffle after the first win and then the new team stays until defeated. Also make the post-victory waiting time random, between 4-9 seconds (between the 'moment of victory' and loading up new fight). The very same would also work to prevent syncing in RA without the need to rework the RA itself AND provide additional bonus to those who manage to win with no monk or in some crappy team - you change your team whilst still having 1 consec already.
If it's to prevent syncing, there's actually no reason to reshuffle the teams after every fight. And given that consecs bonus is taken away, people still may sync in, win, map out, sync in... and get the same rewards - if they'd want so, of course.

ilr · Oct 23, 2010, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Needs countering: Ranger, Ritualist, Assassin, and Warrior

Counter with: More of the same, + Elementalist for Warrior

Thank you.

Actually kinda encouraging to hear War & Rangers are a factor.
...when I first looked at the bars, I was most worried Eles had it lock stock & barrel.